The Conscious Cut
This podcast is dedicated to re-thinking sustainability in fashion and beyond. As a second-generation garment manufacturer, host Hoiki Liu has seen the challenges of overproduction, greenwashing, and unsustainable business models firsthand. Through conversations with entrepreneurs, innovators, and changemakers—especially those driving sustainable practices here in Hong Kong—we’ll explore real solutions for a more responsible and transparent future. Let’s cut through the noise and redefine sustainability together.
The Conscious Cut
Ep. 8 Decluttering for Clarity: How Organization Sparks Sustainable Change w/ Nassim Secci
In this inspiring episode of The Conscious Cut, host Hoiki Liu welcomes Nassim Secci, founder of The Happy Space Co. and Hong Kong’s expert in mindful organization. Transitioning from a high-stakes career as a corporate lawyer, Nassim now empowers families to create calm, functional spaces that spark mental clarity and sustainable habits. She shares practical strategies for decluttering, rehoming preloved items through secondhand sales, and building systems to curb overconsumption in Hong Kong’s fast-paced urban life. From tackling expired food waste to navigating family dynamics, Nassim reveals how an organized home can transform daily living and reduce environmental impact. Tune in to learn how clearing your space can pave the way for a more conscious, sustainable lifestyle.
Nassim Secci is the founder of The Happy Space Co.
Thank you for listening!
Welcome back to the Conscious Cut.
Hoiki Liu:Today we have with us Nassim from the Happy Space. Nassim, to me, is the Marie Kondo of Hong Kong. You can take her services home. Her and her team will sort you and your life and your space out. So I've invited her today because I think not that I need you guys to know, but I think you guys need her services, probably being in such a busy place Hong Kong, we all have helpers, but it doesn't equate to organization. But it doesn't equate to organization. Having a clean and organized place, a space, is so important for your sustainable journey also because when you see things are laid out, you know where things that matter should go, and if they don't have a place to go, they probably don't matter. So you should cut that out of your life probably. You just be less wasteful, more sustainable and it's a great start to building daily habits and practice that you can live with. So, without further ado, I'll let you introduce yourself to us. But yeah, why don't you start off telling us what the Happy Space is?
Nassim Secci:Okay, well, thank you for having me excited to be here with you. So the Happy Space Co is a business that I started more than four years ago and it came after a 10-year career in law, so I used to be a disputes lawyer. It's what brought me to Hong Kong and it was great, I really loved it. But I think it just wasn't what I wanted anymore, and so, after a lot of soul searching, I decided to resign, and my resignation coincidentally happened when COVID hit. And so, yeah, and I did it without a plan. I honestly had no idea what I wanted to do next, and that was part of the reason I kind of stayed in it for so long, because I just I just kept thinking, once I figure out what plan b is, I'm out of here. And I never figured it out because I just didn't have the time or the headspace to. So, yeah, I got out of there, kind of went into hibernation mode when the world went into hibernation mode as well, and it came out after that it came out after that.
Hoiki Liu:So that's actually. You're probably one of the first person to tell me that you just resigned from your existing career of that matter of years, and then you just resigned with no plan. So how did happy space come when you had no plan? Like what brought you to a happy space then?
Nassim Secci:So it was all just so natural. So I was, you know, being my very kind of diligent type, a lawyer self, and I'd kind of created these plans where I was going to research these different business ideas and different legal jobs, and so I was doing all of that. I kind of tried to have myself on a schedule. But then, just very naturally, the very first thing I started doing was just organizing my life. So I was organizing my space. I just felt so behind in life and you know, at that point I was already a mother and you know know, kids take up even more more time, save even less free time than you than you probably ever had in your life. And so I was just trying to catch up on life and kind of catch my breath, because I was always feeling like I was barely keeping my head above water and only doing kind of the things that had to be done. And so I was organizing my home, my clothes, just everything. And it came really, really easily and I just I kept thinking, I was like, wow, why am I on just such like a purging mode? Why am I on just such like a purging mode? And I realized it was because I just finally purged and got rid of a career that kind of that I felt like wasn't serving me anymore, and that was such a such a difficult decision to make, because you have all these thoughts in your head of, oh gosh, I've invested so much time and so much money in my education and, you know, I'm finally feeling like I know what I'm doing in my career and and and so, yeah, so it was just a matter of okay, you know what? I?
Nassim Secci:I kind of jumped over that hurdle and everything else like a top that I hadn't been wearing in years was so easy in comparison. So I was just, I was doing that, I was on a bit of a roll and I was doing it in every respect. And so I had a friend ask me one day like what, what are you doing with yourself? What's the plan? And I was like there's no plan. I have no idea, but I am organizing my entire life. It's what I'm doing every day, and I couldn't be happier, I could do this every day. And that moment I was like, huh, wait, wait, a second, maybe that is what I should do. So that's when I started looking into it as a business and helping other women who were like me, kind of feeling like they were barely keeping their head above water with their careers and kids and life, to help them not feel that overwhelmed that I was always feeling.
Hoiki Liu:Yeah, and that's why I started with saying I feel like a lot of people in Hong Kong will probably need your service, even without realizing it. Because that's the thing most of us don't realize it when we're just running in the cycle of Hong Kong. Yeah, you know, waking up, getting into the grind, coming home, getting the rest you need as fast as possible, like you don't want to go home and start surging and tidying up, like you don't. You feel like with the little bit of time you have you want to relax, right, but here's the thing you don't really relax in a messy house. No, you don't.
Nassim Secci:No, and you're right. I mean, there's something about Hong Kong especially. It's such an intense place, which is one of the reasons I love it. I feel like I am living the equivalent of three lives in Hong Kong. Kind of all the things that you get to do in a day. Right, you could be doing one random thing and then an hour later you could be doing something completely different.
Hoiki Liu:That's the beauty. You're dropping off your kids and then you're going into the public office and then you have a quick lunch meeting.
Nassim Secci:Then you can go to work, get your groceries, exactly Everything is so fast here, and that's what kind of adds to the chaos, right? It's not a slow city by any means, and so there's a lot happening. And then also, spaces are smaller, so, regardless of who you are and how much space you have, it's always less than what it would be in any other city, yeah, any other country.
Hoiki Liu:And so those, those two elements alone, I think, and I want to top that off is that, unlike we were saying, japan, where Marie Kondo is from, in that culture, where a lot of people will be maybe more minimalistic, you know, they live in a more structured like, more routines and structure Hong Kong we don't have that. We actually do a lot of things by impulse. I mean we do have our organization, we do have our plans, but we throw in a lot of impulses in there and there's just, you know, we are a place where I mean, I'm not proud of this, but we're a place where people want things.
Nassim Secci:Yes, yes, people like their things, we like our things, right, and there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody kind of has their thing, but that's exactly right. It's not a place where, because you don't have the space, you're going to kind of control your consumerism, right, like no, no, no, no, we're going to find a way we're gonna.
Hoiki Liu:We're gonna find a way. We just need to find more ways to. So this is the rule I have at my home with my kids. Yeah, um, because I think by now me and my husband, we've curbed ourselves. We, we know what our needs are, we know what we have like being relatively organized, being able to see what we have, we know where to get what we need, when we need it, when you need it. So you know, there's not a lot of replenishing things and it's like, oh, I already have that there and things like that. But with kids they will forget. You know, this is the next best thing.
Hoiki Liu:Everybody's talking about Nadra. Now I want Nadra, but before that it was Pokemon and then Playblades. You know, so many things add up, so we only have so much space and my rule for them is we can only get you something else, or even birthday presents. We can only be open to people giving you presents if you have the space to put those things. So if you want something new, what are you going to get rid of first? Where are you going to find the space right? So that concept has kind of been etched into them? Where are you going to find a space, right. So that concept has kind of been etched into them and, with that said, every time they want something new. They're looking at the space they have and well, what can I get rid of? And they realize I don't. I like everything that I have here. And it helps them think about.
Nassim Secci:Do I really need that thing Exactly? Do I really need this other thing? Is it worth giving up this other item? I think these are really really great things for kids to think about and to be really kind of thoughtful and mindful about what they're consuming. But first they need to have that practice Totally and it comes to the example I think it's seeing you guys do. It is the best way for them to start learning these things okay, but not everybody has that mindset like we.
Hoiki Liu:We know that right. So for the clients that come to you now who do realize, oh, I need some structure or some organization in life, can you tell me, like what, what was the triggering point to get them to realize they need this service? And then what is it that you do for them really?
Nassim Secci:Yeah. So I think it varies for certain clients and certain things. So I think the main theme is a lot of times there's some kind of transition. So you know, either there's like a new baby arriving, and so that tolerance of you know what that spare room was looking like is. Now it's at a point where, okay, you have to deal with it, and so it sees certain kinds of transitional periods in their life that then force them, or somebody's moving, or um.
Nassim Secci:But then there are also the people who it's that pain threshold. They just, you know, and it could be like they couldn't, um, somebody was telling me they couldn't find their passports and they missed their flights, and that was like a big wake up call, like something, something needs to change. Or, you know, it's just like stepping on that like toy head, and you're like that's it, we're doing something about this. So, yeah, I think they're all of us have a certain tolerance level and then we, we hit our backs and it could be like the smallest thing. Or, you know, missing a flight, and then you're like that's it, I need to do something about this I mean you give two really great examples just now, missing a flight.
Hoiki Liu:That's a very personal wake-up call. But I guess there's also that mom that stepped on you know another piece of Lego, just one, two, damn many times you know.
Nassim Secci:Almost want to swear that it's happened to me quite a few times and I just want to like, yeah, no more Legos.
Hoiki Liu:You know, but yeah, usually it's a triggering point for somebody. It might not be a triggering point for everybody in the household. Right, that's right, yeah, so how do you deal with that? Like I'm mad about the kids but they don't care, or you know, okay, a more serious issue is sometimes, you know, have you ever heard of like a depression room is when someone's like they're so mentally out and depressed that they can't cope with life so they're living in a mess. You know, a lot of times we're talking about like the four doors and stuff. Sometimes it's also that it gets to a point, and that's why I said earlier like a messy space is not a relaxing place. No, because it actually gives you a lot of anxiety.
Nassim Secci:It does, instead of seeing what you have, you realize it's all your problems piling on to you right, that's right, and they've done studies on this, I think, for women especially, they see that they've done studies of how women respond to their environment. If they're disorganized and not tidy, their cortisol levels are higher, and not tidy, their cortisol levels are higher. So, yeah, it's actually I see it in my experience. I see that it's a two-way street. So it's.
Nassim Secci:You could be somebody who is dealing with depression and anxiety and your home is a reflection of that, because you just aren't in the headspace, aren't in the headspace to organize it, to tidy it up. You kind of let things go and then as things get worse, it makes you feel even worse. So it's this vicious cycle. And you know, our spaces really are a reflection of our inner state. It's a, it's an extension of us. Essentially, I think, especially our more private spaces, I think, like our own bedrooms, and so when those aren't feeling right, then sometimes it is. It's maybe a reflection of something brewing inside that isn't feeling good, and so for these, I've personally seen the impact it could have when we just, you know, just get through it, go through all the things, get it in, you know, get it organized, take out what needs to come out of the home. They feel such relief and for a lot of them it's a really important part of their kind of recovery.
Hoiki Liu:Yeah, I'm sure, and there's a lot of clarity seeing things open again.
Nassim Secci:There's so much clarity, I think even for you know, there are a lot of people who we organize. They might be business owners, they might be you know. They're just kind of they're trying to figure something out, and when they've gotten that clarity in their space, it's something just kind of opens up mentally, where they know what their next steps are. They are like the creative juices start flowing again. It's really incredible, I think.
Hoiki Liu:Can you walk me through the process a little bit? Do you do the Marie Kondo thing that we see on Netflix, like let's throw everything in a pile and, you know, does it spark joy? I mean, the thing is, I've tried that method once. Yeah, was it spark joy? No, put everything in a pile, yeah, that gave me so much anxiety and then I wanted to just leave the pile there. Me so much anxiety and then I wanted to just leave the body over there. I've never looked like that before. I've never done this. I know I guess it doesn't work for everybody. So I want to know, like but how does it work? Because, like we said, not everybody is like oh, I know I need to do this. Some people are really reluctant, like why are you touching my things?
Nassim Secci:You know like, so how? What is your process? So I mean, the good thing is, by the time we've gotten there, we're working with somebody who wants us there Right, which is important. So that's why, when we're having conversations, I never want to push. I want to work with somebody who is mentally ready for it. It's not my job to convince you. You just you have to get there Right. Some you know we might be talking for a while years. Yeah, there's some, some people I've talked to for years. Every now and then they kind of reach out again and so there's something that clicks. And so by the time you make the effort to get the professional help, something has clicked within you. So that's like a great first step, for sure. But yes, I 100% believe in taking things out. I don't think you need to take everything out all at once. That's just kind of disorienting, especially if you're doing it alone.
Hoiki Liu:Yeah, it's really shocking that moment, like when you suddenly see everything out but you're like I do want all this stuff. Why did I think it needs to happen before organizing?
Nassim Secci:but I, you know, I won't, I won't complicate it here. So you want to declutter, and I do think you can do that in little bits. The benefit of, of course, doing it with professional help is, you know, we can just rip the bandaid off and do a lot. But if you are doing it on your own, then, yeah, you want to maybe try to do a little bit at a time. I mean, how many people do you know, or how many times have you done this yourself? Right when you start, and then you just can't finish. It's just right. Yeah, it's too much, it's too overwhelming.
Nassim Secci:You start off with all the best intentions, all the energy in the world start off with all the best intentions, all the energy in the world. And I think that's where having somebody help you is really instrumental. So I say, you know, we're like a personal trainer, except that we can also do the pushups for you. Yes, you can. If you want it, just say you know what I can't deal with. This. Um, kind of, do it, you know, do the organization for me, and then, of course, you have to be the one who decides ultimately what stays or goes. But there's a lot that can be done for you up until that point. Like you know, clothes of a certain size, like can just be put aside for you to do a quick kind of look through and you try to decide quickly if you're going to get rid of it.
Hoiki Liu:So what about larger pieces? Because I've seen you, you like it's not just the clothing right, a lot of times it's even whole pieces of furniture. I see people like are updating I guess maybe their lifestyles or new marriages or mothers-in-law moving in or moving out, whatever.
Nassim Secci:Well, there's something that happens, like once you get going and once you're like, ok, I don't, I don't like, you know this top, or I don't want this, or I've been unnecessarily holding on to this, and that then you're like, you know, I've been wanting to get rid of that couch, you know. You know, things just start flowing and, yeah, you should seize on it, and why not? I don't think we should be surrounded by things that we hate.
Hoiki Liu:Are you guys ever stuck in an argument between, like mother-in-laws and daughter-in-laws or, like you know, or even I mean, husband and wife, yeah, or children and parents? I was just going to say maybe the dynamics is a little bit less, because the parents probably obviously have more power there or even employers and their helpers at home If helpers were to say less, I mean there are lots of different dynamics in play.
Nassim Secci:Right, you have people that have different styles. Like, usually there'll be one person who's a bit more sentimental than another person. You have one person who really likes to keep things and the other one doesn't, and so the process has to feel good for everyone. It's not about, you know, let's just get rid of everything, let's turn you into minimalists Not at all, and it's not fair to the person who's having a harder time letting go to kind of push them into doing more than they want to do. So it's about, I think, finding the right compromises and for us to try to hone in on, you know, what is truly important to each person and to let them have it. I mean, everyone is different and it might be things that you don't even expect.
Nassim Secci:Like we had a client once who loved his cables and wires. Like they just gave him joy, and so we organized it and we made like a really lovely cable and wire drawer that, I think, just made him feel good to have. That's great. I don't think he really used it, but he felt good and ultimately think he really used it. Yeah, he felt good and ultimately and it's organized exactly. It's organized, it's ready to be used. So why not just like women like their shoes, or they like their bags, or you know, those are kind of some of the more stereotypical things and that was the thing I was gonna say.
Hoiki Liu:I'm sure, like this kind of organizing, you're almost there to help resolve some family conflicts, you know, and you're there to help improve the relationships, like recognizing what each person's needs are and how much space you get.
Nassim Secci:Yeah, for that, yeah the whole thing is, is it's? It's actually deeply psychological, even if it's just one individual there's. There may be there may be guilt, there may be. There's just so many different things at play. And then you add more human beings and their dynamics with each other, and so it does get more complex, but it's. What can we do to cut through this for everybody to feel good and to get things in a place in a way that works? And so for some people it means we're going to keep it. Fine, let's keep it, let's have a nice container for it, let's put it somewhere where it's not taking up kind of precious real estate and the home, and they feel good that it's still there. And then maybe the other person feels good that it can't be seen, and that can be the compromise and the best next step and maybe in a few months that person can revisit whether they're okay to to let it go.
Hoiki Liu:Sometimes people need to do things in, in stages, that's true now the other thing is, how often are these clients of more yours usually like you go on once and and it's good, or is there repeated visits?
Nassim Secci:I think so, for for a lot of, they need help creating the framework. And so we're setting up the systems, we're setting up the framework, and a system is not just oh, here are a few containers, I've labeled them for you. Make sure this goes in there. It's really thinking through how the family operates, the strengths and weaknesses of everyone in the family, not really not going too far against the grain and coming up with solutions that then can be maintained, and so designing the system and then having a plan in place for the habits that go with that system so that it can be maintained on its own. And so there are most of our clients, you know we'll check in with them six months later, a year later, even two years later. How is everything? And they're like it's great, it's working beautifully, and they just you know, either didn't have the time, they didn't, they weren't sure how to do it. But as long as they are generally, as long as they are in that space and that home, it's totally fine. They just, with a little bit of maintenance, it works really well, and that's ultimately our goal.
Nassim Secci:I want to work myself out of a job basically our goal. I want to work myself out of a job. Basically, I want to arm you with the skills and with the framework that is going to work long term and it will need some maintenance. It needs some upkeep, right, if we're just, if we're never decluttering, if we're never kind of putting things back where they belong, but it's not just okay, now put them back here. It's a bit more thoughtful, let's. You know, maybe every like every Tuesday morning, there could be a reset for this space, like especially for kids' spaces. You really need this, this upkeep, but it's so much easier when the framework is there.
Hoiki Liu:Yeah, I think the kids thing is also difficult because they grow out of things so quickly, which brings me to my next part. Is I want to ask is there uh, overall, when you look at when because you've done so much, so much decluttering for so many families, now, right, is there something by now you can actually advise people like? This is something that everybody throws out. You all have this at home stuck somewhere and nobody actually wants it don't get it.
Nassim Secci:That's, yeah, that's a really interesting question. Here's what I'll say to that Gifts when you're gifting something to someone, I would say, really think about whether it's something that they like, especially decorative pieces. And it becomes such a heartache for people because they're like this is from a really dear friend, or this is from somebody who will often even visit me and maybe, you know, maybe they'll ask about it. Or gifts from in-laws that's a really difficult one for people, but it's usually things that were bought for them. Okay, and so it's something that I reflect on a lot. One I'm giving gifts, and so you know, and then what usually happens and everybody does this is people then re-gift. So then the cycle continues and people are just passing on this stuff that no one is ever going to use. But it's this kind of social obligation of giving something. So, yeah, I would say that's kind of a reoccurring theme, is kind of these random things that people were gifted and they're like, oh, I don't know what to do with this, but it was such a lovely gesture.
Hoiki Liu:I've been very careful about giving gifts because of exactly what you said and because I am so worried about people giving me things that I don't want. You know, I actually now my go-to is just bring something to eat. Yes, can I bring something from like the party Like do you need drinks? Do you need some food, is it?
Nassim Secci:a pot and more so to eat, not even drink, right, because even wine, liquor, that piles up too, and then people feel silly about decluttering that.
Hoiki Liu:It doesn't go bad, but I don't ever drink and it's like whoa and people don't realize, actually, when I'm always saying fashion is the second most polluting industry in the world.
Hoiki Liu:Food waste is number one. Oh, food, yes, and I assume a lot of people will have this issue because I was telling you earlier, my whole house, very honestly, I don't need your service at my place, but in my kitchen, okay, I don't need your service at my place, but in my kitchen, okay, my kitchen is horrible because, like I was, like, my cupboards need to match the depths of the console table on top, so everything is so deep and I never reach it right. Most of them are deep and my husband knows this. A lot of times on our day off, on Sunday, when I'm the one to be in the kitchen making breakfast, making hovers and around, oh my God, I have so much anxiety and I start cleaning the kitchen and I find so many expired food. Yeah, and that's my biggest like why do we have so much expired food? You know, like expired noodles, expired dried food. It just makes no sense. But you're not alone, you don't see it.
Nassim Secci:Yeah, You're not alone. It's so common and I think my, I think my team loves doing kitchens because in a way, it's really easy. You don't just. You know, you're just kind of looking at expiration dates, oh, they can be really hard to find, but it's kind of it's like a no-brainer, right. There is so much expired food, always, always, and it's just because we're busy and we don't always look at those things, and so it's really, really common, you're right.
Nassim Secci:And a lot of clients will actually complain about the food in the fridge and how multiple containers are getting opened up the same thing or they're overbuying, and so that's why I love organization for kitchens. I think it's so useful in stopping food waste, just making grocery shopping so much easier, and I think most of us are. We're not just shopping from one place, right. We're shopping online from multiple places, and then we're doing it at the store or our helpers are doing it. Multiple people are doing it. Multiple people are doing it. We're doing it from multiple places and then we're doing it at the store or our helpers are doing it.
Nassim Secci:Multiple people are doing it, multiple people are doing it. We're doing it from multiple places. It's you know, you're ordering this type of thing from this place. Maybe you're having protein powder, your kid's snacks, everything is from different places. And then how many times have you started clicking through? You do like an iHerb order and then you're like, oh, I just like forgot this one or two things, and then you don't want to do another order. So organization in the kitchen is so useful for daily life and for not wasting knowing what you have, using what you have.
Hoiki Liu:I think using what you have is very important.
Nassim Secci:It really is, and so in your case it might be getting a container that works labeling things, because sometimes it's hard to remember where things are. Even figuring out what categories you have within a kitchen is difficult how do you categorize this? But once that is figured out, then you know exactly where you know tomato sauces go and you could just quickly go and check if you have enough, yeah, and then you're good. You don't need to go buy six more cans because you don't want to be in a bind on Sunday yes, but the next time when you actually look for it and take it out, it's all expired.
Nassim Secci:Yes, exactly so, having these systems in place and the habits that go with that system. So you know, saying it could be the first of the month, you know our helper, like on the first of the month, will go and check all the expiration dates. Anything that is about to expire kind of moves forward. Or you know there are lots of different systems that you can put in place. Or, if you are a household that eats a lot of like pastas, having the open ones in a certain spot Because sometimes you go back and you find like two packs of open spaghetti and they just don't add up.
Hoiki Liu:Yes, exactly.
Nassim Secci:Or you're mixing different kinds of pasta, which is like a sin, according to my Italian husband.
Hoiki Liu:Okay, so now that we've gone on to talk about the stuff that they're getting rid of I'm sure there's a lot of it what do you do with the things that people don't want anymore?
Nassim Secci:So it might feel like a sustainable practice, like, oh, this is a top that I wore outside. It has a little stain, I'll just wear it at home. Now, I don't believe in that at all, like, I'm very much against it. I think, first of all, you probably won't wear it at home if you're not kind of in the habit of it and, second of all, if you're not going to wear it out, then why wear it at home? For yourself, right? It needs to be feel good for you, right? Regardless of whether other people see it or not.
Nassim Secci:And so there's this bit of a dilemma, right, where, like for us, a successful decluttering session is getting rid of more, but then for a lot of people, that feels wasteful, so they want to try to find ways to reuse or repurpose, and ultimately, I think it just creates a heavier load.
Nassim Secci:It's another to-do item, it's another, and so part of what I want to do is try to find the right thing to do with those items. So, okay, let's just donate it. I think a lot of people like to resell items, and that's an honest conversation that I like to have with clients, because I think, frankly, for most things it's not worth the energy, the time that it takes to post, and so it's trying to find kind of smart shortcuts. Is there a school that these could be donated to? Or is there, like somebody in your family that would, that would use it and not to just pawn things off on other people right, because that happens a lot but to really come up with a solution that is effective but quick and not, you know, involving I'm going to sand this down and paint it, and some people are, yeah, we'll definitely do that, but for most people it's not going to happen, and so it's finding realistic things that we can do.
Hoiki Liu:I think in Hong Kong it's hard to expect that out of a lot of people that live in cities with a regular day-to-day job, because the reason they got here in the first place is because they didn't feel like they had that time and capacity.
Nassim Secci:So to expect them to all of a sudden gain that time and capacity, exactly. It's not realistic. It's not realistic. I have a really really practical approach and so it's. You know, it's totally fine to resell things. Let's do it, and they're like great platforms out there to help.
Hoiki Liu:I've even seen you do it on your own Instagram with large furniture pieces and there's a few times where I was like, oh yeah, but I was like, do I actually have the space?
Nassim Secci:Yeah, so and so that's. That's one of the kind of quick, easy solutions is we'll try to just post it on, post it on our stories. We also have a WhatsApp group Right and we'll just post it on there. And most of the time it's not for free, because we want people to want it and some people are kind of lured by the fact that something is free, but we want somebody to come get it who is going to pay, like you know 100 Hong Kong dollars or you know 500 Hong Kong dollars or something that might have been worth 50,000 Hong Kong dollars. But the point is like rehoming and I love that.
Nassim Secci:I get such satisfaction from things getting rehomed and I'll often get pictures from people who have gotten the items and even for donations. So when we're donating, we just take it with us immediately and get it donated. We will not leave it in your house. First of all, we don't want to add to your to-do list. Second of all, there's always the risk of somebody pulling things back in there and pulling things back out, and so we just get it. We get it donated for you.
Nassim Secci:But to also be very thoughtful about about the way we donate. So there might be things that we're donating and they come in multiple pieces, so putting in a little bit of effort to tie them all up in a bag and if there's like instructions, instructions, maybe just stick the instructions in there again. It's just finding that right balance of practicality and, and you know, usefulness right and so making sure we're not just kind of that, we're donating in a respectful way. And then there's some things that is a bit borderline and it's like unfortunately, unfortunately. I don't think somebody can reuse this, so let's not you know let's not donate the puzzle that's missing two pieces.
Hoiki Liu:You know it's like. Oh well, you know, is the kid that's gonna get it gonna be happy or sad about this? If he is really disrespectful in some way.
Nassim Secci:You don't want to frustrate a poor child that is so excited to get this like paw patrol puzzle and it's missing. It's missing the pieces. So what do we do if? If on the box it says a 30 piece puzzle, we don't sit there and try to make the puzzle to see if something's missing. We just quickly count the pieces and then, okay, they're only 28 here, it's a 30, it's a 30 piece puzzle, so unfortunately that that can't be used.
Hoiki Liu:Yeah, I mean that that's the saying wish, uh, wish cycling, which is like when you recycle something, you don't know what's happening to it or where it's gonna go. You just wish that it's actually going to go where it should go. Same thing with donations. A lot of times, I think we're wish donating, like we feel so good about giving things away, but, yeah, you don't think about like who's actually gonna get it. Do they actually want it? You know, is it respectful for you to give, you know, certain things away, like, like, like we said, like toys with missing pieces, right, flows of stains that you can't remove, right? Um, so I think we, we do need to be very realistic about that.
Hoiki Liu:Yeah, bringing it back is when the clients see what you guys are taking all these things away, are they, do they realize the work that you guys still have to do when you leave with their, their things that they don't no longer want? Or do they think, oh, it's great, you're gonna donate everything for us and I can go on a new cycle of of consumerism now? Or is it like, look guys, like this is what you know, because it's part of the habit building and practice like, like this is what we've achieved, like this is all the things that we're saying goodbye to, and you know, how do you? I guess, how? How do I even put this? Like, what is their thought process? Are they like, oh great, I'm going to live more sustainably now because, without we us even using that word it's just a natural lifestyle change that was needed? That's why you were called in to begin with? Yeah, or is it like, oh great, you know, I'm getting all of my stuff like, let's buy again I would say, yeah, we don't.
Nassim Secci:We don't discuss sustainability, we don't. I don't see my role as kind of schooling anybody.
Hoiki Liu:I just find that a bit judgmental and I think, counterproductive with what you're doing already without having to call it out.
Nassim Secci:That's exactly so. I never, I never do that. I think I I want to be really encouraging of people engaging in the process and and doing taking these steps to feel better about their space, feel better about about themselves. So there's never this kind of like what are our lessons learned? No, but a very, very natural byproduct of what we do and you can just see it in their faces is this realization, and for everybody it's different. But there is a realization of, okay, I just I bought a few too many things, or, you know, I should be a bit more kind of mindful about this, and so it is a very slow kind of, I think, quiet realization. And then for others it might be a bit heavier where they really feel badly about it.
Nassim Secci:And what I say to that is we have to be forward looking here. It's not wasteful. Today, where we're taking the items for donation, or you know we're trashing some items or you know recycling some items, the waste happened at the moment of purchase, when you bought something that you thought you were going to use and you never ended up using or you bought too much. That's when it happened. So let's not carry that burden on what's happening today. Today we are lightening the load and then we just want to take a lesson from that and just be forward, looking forward and a lot of it.
Hoiki Liu:It just happens very, very organically is there also things that people like you have to get rid of because, like, there is um missing pieces or things, but then they actually really like this puzzle, for example, or they really like the certain address, but now it's missing some buttons or missing a belt or something like that. Like, is there things like that that happen, or is it usually like, the things that they're getting rid of is what they absolutely don't?
Nassim Secci:No, no, no, well, so those kinds of things come up all the time, and so a part of what we do is, well, we could just change all of the buttons, and you know. And then they might be like, oh yeah, I didn't think about that, oh, that that's, that's a good idea. And then they have to then think okay, is the cost of changing these buttons something that I, you know, I want to invest in? Is this piece important enough for me? And then they make the decision then. And then there are a lot of us, you know, we have sentimental things. So, yeah, it might be a puzzle that's missing pieces, but it was something that was maybe passed down in the family and we want to keep, and so we can keep it. But we put it in a nice like sentimental box or in a memorabilia box and we keep it. And and then now you have a designated place to put those sorts of things.
Hoiki Liu:I guess it helps people recognize like the things, like things will deteriorate, they will break, like things that matter to you. You should be organized about it, because when you're, when you're neat and tidy, the longevity of these things are just, it's just gonna last longer.
Nassim Secci:Totally, there are these very practical elements of oh, there were bags that were stuffed at the back of my wardrobe and they've gone moldy because I didn't even remember that they were there, and so you are going to preserve your things better. If your space is organized, if your things are accessible, visible, then you're going to use it, and that ultimately, like what is more sustainable than that Consuming and using the things that you have purchased?
Hoiki Liu:I do want to talk about one more thing, actually, when we're talking about the clitorate and the things that you donate, I remember there was one time you hosted a secondhand sale in Tycoon, so that was a very I mean I assume those things were all from your customers. Did you collect them for them for a period of time and then you host it as an annual thing, or what was that all?
Nassim Secci:about. So yeah, so kind of going back to this idea of how do we, where does this stuff go, right, and wanting to be practical about it. And you know, just very kind of realistic about the approach. So there are lots of things that you can donate, but then there's certain things that just don't make sense to donate.
Nassim Secci:For a lot of clients it's really great pieces that are almost new, and so you know, we work with a lot of secondhand platforms like Hula, but even these guys are getting completely bombarded with stock, and so you know, normally I would just go to them and say, can we sell these items with you? And they, they can't take so much of it. So then I thought, ok, let me, let me try to organize something. And so I was. I was kind of doing it one off and then we just had so much that I thought, all right, let's organize a sale. And that was really fun. We sold a lot of great pieces and we're still doing it.
Nassim Secci:It's going to be an ongoing thing because there is this problem right of where does this stuff go? And so if you price it well, but people are still paying for it, they're paying for something that they still love. They're still being thoughtful about it, trying it on. Is this something I'm going to wear, something I'm going to use? But then they feel great because they're getting it at such a deal, so it's a win-win. And then our clients feel good because they are getting a little bit bad for it.
Hoiki Liu:but then it's getting rehomed and it's being done in a really thoughtful way, the feeling that it's no longer a wish donation, but like it actually got cycled back into somebody's life cycle.
Nassim Secci:Exactly, and then and then there are people who will send me pictures of them using the pieces and it's just, I don't know it. It's so. It's such a great feeling. Yeah, see that right, and they're so excited, so it's, it's great, it's part of it's part of this ecosystem of ours, right? I mean I would love to be able to match people and kind of rehome things and, and we do that, I mean it's and I think it's it's.
Hoiki Liu:It's been harder for Hong Kong to pick up, but it's actually going to be part of my future segments, talking about more secondhand buying and reusing and sharing even sharing platforms. I think it's something that it's definitely something that it's going to be around for the future. A secondhand shop.
Nassim Secci:I think so and I think there's still. There's a little bit of shame tied to it, and there's also a little bit of shame tied to people using professional organizers. So, you know, it's very interesting, but I don't think there should be any. I think it's great to buy secondhand.
Hoiki Liu:Yeah, if it's something you love, that you would, you know, purchase at full price, like you know, truly use, and I think this is why a lot of like what we're doing and this generation is about is breaking the old cycles of the way we see things, the way we saw shame, the way we saw success even it's not necessarily what we need going forward Totally, I think, especially when it comes to getting help for doing something like this.
Nassim Secci:For a lot of people, they think, well, it's so simple, I should be able to do this on my own, and there is a lot of social pressure that, oh well, just you know, just just whip it up, just organize it yourself, just declutter yourself, and I I think that you know delegating outsourcing you're gonna get it done faster, you're gonna get get it done better, and instead of agonizing for months and months and months and living in this way trying to convince yourself that it's okay to get help, you just get it done.
Hoiki Liu:Yeah, and you're living in a really peaceful home, yeah and it's not necessarily even just, uh, when you live with other people and families. I find often it might be actually when you're living alone because you don't have that. You don't have anybody else that you need to answer to about your home, so you can really let that anxiety grow. Um, I almost feel like it's when I got married that me and my husband got more organized because we have to be respectful towards each other, right? So, yeah, I think for anybody and everybody, like, really think about it. If you need someone to help clear your space so you can clear your mind, please get that done. I'm gonna share your handles and your contacts at the end of this podcast and also I'm gonna need to ask you to update us when you have those secondhand sales so I can promote it to our customers. Sure, definitely very much for your time today. Thank you, this was fun, thank you.
